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Old 04-10-2012, 09:08 AM
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Default The Republican Budget and Welfare

Here is a Washington Post article on the Republican budget proposals and how they cut welfare - sometimes by shifting less money to the states.

One quote in particular indicates the problem of giving the states the ability to oversee that money.

Quote:
Fewer people are getting help through welfare and much of the money intended for them is being diverted to plug unrelated holes in state budgets.
I can identify with this with what happens in Ohio. Our state constantly robs from funds designated for other purposes so that they can offer tax incentives to businesses. Meanwhile - people live on $2 a day.

Yes. I said two dollars a day. Read it in the WAPO article.

Read how single mothers are resorting to crime - and tolerating abusive relationships.

No Free Lunch
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  #2  
Old 04-10-2012, 10:28 AM
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This reminds me of why I will never vote for one of the politicians who support the Ryan budget. It also reminds me of this blog post I read.


Quote:
The Brute Economics of Slavery
The necessary conditions for reducing a population to serfdom are as follows.

- A large wealth and power disparity between the haves and the have-nots.

- Perhaps more significantly, the ownership of virtually all assets by an elite class, with severely limited opportunities for the general population to own or accumulate assets.

- A poorly educated population with limited skill sets.

- Severely impaired individual mobility, due to an impossible debt and/or tax burden and legal restrictions.

- Government of the masters, by the masters, for the masters, with little or no sense of worth or justice for the serfs. This enforces and reinforces the previous point.

- A social and/or religious system that recognizes the inherent meritocracy of the master class.

- A population that is scared or coerced into ceding their freedom to the masters in exchange for security.

- The political will to deprive people of their fundamental human dignity.

.........

What do we have today?

- The largest wealth disparity since before the great depression - at every stratum of society, growing larger every day.

- An all out assault by the moneyed elite on the wealth and status of working people. Union busting is one of the tools.

- Deliberate undermining of public education.

- Segments of the population tied to the land by under-water mortgages or the inability to unload a property.

- Popular social movements with religious backing that favor the interests of the elite over the interests of the people.

- Constant fear-mongering as a pretext for inducing people to give up their basic rights.

- A moneyed elite that effectively owns government.
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:35 AM
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Default

It also reminded me of the stories I read about Michigan.

Quote:
Eleven thousand Michigan families were cut from welfare cash assistance late last year. Cash assistance is the $500 a month or so that helps the poorest families pay their bills and rent. The Department of Human Services says the state can’t afford the cost. So, the agency cut off those who’d been on welfare the longest. Advocates for the poor say there’s no need for those cuts… there’s plenty of federal money to pay for the benefits.

In the past, the state agency has used federal grant money for cash assistance to help people who had been on welfare for longer than usually allowed if they meet certain circumstances. The Department is no longer doing that, saying the state can’t afford it. Although, there is still federal grant money available for it.

Davenport knows many believe the majority of people on welfare are just not willing to work. They’re gaming the system, living on taxpayer money because they can get away with it. Everybody’s got a story of welfare abuse they’ve heard from somewhere.

Tracy Davenport says you cannot count her among the stereotypes.

“I’ve been working since I was 16 years old and so I did for myself.”

So, why isn’t she working now? Because of her health problems, Tracy Davenport falls down… often.

“It’s not like I get dizzy and fall, it’s just like my body just collapses. And that’s the original reason why I was let go from my job, because the falling was kind of being a liability.”

She’d advanced her career at a women’s crisis center from direct care for residents to manager. But the falling got worse. And then there was so much time in the hospital.

One of her heart valves stopped operating correctly. Her heart is just not pumping enough blood. She’s fallen so many times that her knees and back are damaged and arthritic. She has high blood pressure and a thyroid condition. Her days are basically trying to make it from the house to the driveway for another doctor’s appointment… and hoping she doesn’t collapse in the parking lot… again.
Quote:
Todd Stafford has an uncontrollable neurological disorder that causes him to beat himself in the head hundreds of times a day. The beatings have made him blind and caused his head to “look like Frankenstein,” he says. His wife, Tina Stafford, doesn’t have a job because someone needs to be at their St. Joseph County home in case Todd injures himself seriously.

Elizabeth Weaver’s son has cerebral palsy and a rare skin cancer. She stays at their Bay County home to care for the 6-year-old, who cannot feed or clothe himself.

Brian McFalls has brittle diabetes, end-stage renal failure and is legally blind. His wife Tammy stays home to give him medications and monitor him for insulin reactions.

These are the situations legislators had in mind when they exempted families caring for sick and disabled spouses and children from the state’s massive welfare reform last year.

Yet those families lost their benefits anyway
Heartless, completely heartless.

And to think we can afford to give tax breaks to the owners of leveraged buyout shops, hedge funds and the likes of Lloyd B. of Goldman Sachs, but we can't afford to give even a few dollars to help families in need. This is wrong.
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  #4  
Old 04-10-2012, 11:54 AM
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Not to discount the above mentioned lives in need. But I do want to be fair to the idea that there probably is room for reform in the area of providing welfare.

Since welfare is essentially a social program perhaps we should apply it as such, through social services offices.

In cases such as the ones listed above - people who are cut off should be able to apply to an office (state or fed - I don't care) and be able to challenge the decisions.
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Old 04-10-2012, 02:54 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian in Ohio View Post
Here is a Washington Post article on the Republican budget proposals and how they cut welfare - sometimes by shifting less money to the states.

One quote in particular indicates the problem of giving the states the ability to oversee that money.



I can identify with this with what happens in Ohio. Our state constantly robs from funds designated for other purposes so that they can offer tax incentives to businesses. Meanwhile - people live on $2 a day.

Yes. I said two dollars a day. Read it in the WAPO article.

Read how single mothers are resorting to crime - and tolerating abusive relationships.

No Free Lunch
.
Isn't using fed money intended for one use to balance state budgets SOP for small government conservatives?
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  #6  
Old 04-10-2012, 02:58 PM
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If by SOP you mean, States-Only Prerogative, then I suppose so.

LOL
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian in Ohio View Post
Not to discount the above mentioned lives in need. But I do want to be fair to the idea that there probably is room for reform in the area of providing welfare.

Since welfare is essentially a social program perhaps we should apply it as such, through social services offices.

In cases such as the ones listed above - people who are cut off should be able to apply to an office (state or fed - I don't care) and be able to challenge the decisions.
Room for reform, yeah there is room for reform.

Like maybe not allowing states to balance their budget on the backs of the poor, like AZ where they diverted funds for welfare to fill in gaps in their general state budget.

Quote:
Faced with flat federal financing and rising need, Arizona is one of 16 states that have cut their welfare caseloads further since the start of the recession — in its case, by half. Even as it turned away the needy, Arizona spent most of its federal welfare dollars on other programs, using permissive rules to plug state budget gaps.
The poor people who were dropped from cash assistance here, mostly single mothers, talk with surprising openness about the desperate, and sometimes illegal, ways they make ends meet. They have sold food stamps, sold blood, skipped meals, shoplifted, doubled up with friends, scavenged trash bins for bottles and cans and returned to relationships with violent partners — all with children in tow.
Perhaps we should force idiot headless corpse seeing politicians onto the welfare rolls then cut their benefits off and see how they survive. Let them figure out first hand how many pints of blood they need to sell to cover their rent or put food on the table for their kids.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:00 PM
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One out of 50 children in America live in a household that has less than 2 dollars per day to spend per person. Two bucks a day.

Fucked Up Shit
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barb View Post
It also reminded me of the stories I read about Michigan.



Heartless, completely heartless.

And to think we can afford to give tax breaks to the owners of leveraged buyout shops, hedge funds and the likes of Lloyd B. of Goldman Sachs, but we can't afford to give even a few dollars to help families in need. This is wrong.
Cry me a river. The people described in the article are the extreme (of course) and qualify under state and federal disability programs.

Michigan cut off welfare benefits after 48 months life time because of the volume of generational welfare recipients not the truly disabled.

If it sounds too cruel, it probably is not true.
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:18 PM
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Isn't using fed money intended for one use to balance state budgets SOP for small government conservatives?
Well is it?

How do you give a Thanks for a question?
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Barb View Post
Room for reform, yeah there is room for reform.

Like maybe not allowing states to balance their budget on the backs of the poor, like AZ where they diverted funds for welfare to fill in gaps in their general state budget.



Perhaps we should force idiot headless corpse seeing politicians onto the welfare rolls then cut their benefits off and see how they survive. Let them figure out first hand how many pints of blood they need to sell to cover their rent or put food on the table for their kids.
If these women in AZ are so ambitious with these ways to make ends meet then why don't they just get jobs?
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:26 PM
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One out of 50 children in America live in a household that has less than 2 dollars per day to spend per person. Two bucks a day.

Fucked Up Shit
That is an interesting stat. Do you have a link for it?

I agree though. The Obama economy is FUS.
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:34 PM
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Well is it?

How do you give a Thanks for a question?
The answer is yes.



And, wow bitter much?
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miwingman View Post
Cry me a river. The people described in the article are the extreme (of course) and qualify under state and federal disability programs.

Michigan cut off welfare benefits after 48 months life time because of the volume of generational welfare recipients not the truly disabled.

If it sounds too cruel, it probably is not true.

Read what I posted again and get back to me on how these people can are generational welfare abusers and how they didn't get cut off.


Quote:
Todd Stafford has an uncontrollable neurological disorder that causes him to beat himself in the head hundreds of times a day. The beatings have made him blind and caused his head to “look like Frankenstein,” he says. His wife, Tina Stafford, doesn’t have a job because someone needs to be at their St. Joseph County home in case Todd injures himself seriously.

Elizabeth Weaver’s son has cerebral palsy and a rare skin cancer. She stays at their Bay County home to care for the 6-year-old, who cannot feed or clothe himself.

Brian McFalls has brittle diabetes, end-stage renal failure and is legally blind. His wife Tammy stays home to give him medications and monitor him for insulin reactions.

These are the situations legislators had in mind when they exempted families caring for sick and disabled spouses and children from the state’s massive welfare reform last year.

Yet those families lost their benefits anyway
Yeah, they lost their benefits and it is wrong. Why don't you cry a fucking river for them.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miwingman View Post
If these women in AZ are so ambitious with these ways to make ends meet then why don't they just get jobs?
Well the recession sure increased opportunities in the job market now didn't it? And it's so darn easy to put a kid or two in a decent affordable daycare that is open 24/7 so you can work for minimum wage at McDonald's or in a strip club and get ahead in life.

Maybe you could offer them a job? Cry them a fucking river.

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Among the Arizonans who lost their checks was Tamika Shelby, who first sought cash aid at 29 after fast-food jobs and a stint as a waitress in a Phoenix strip club. The state gave her $176 a month and sent her to work part time at a food bank. Though she was effectively working for $2 an hour, she scarcely missed a day in more than a year.
"I loved it," she said.
Her supervisor, Michael Cox, said Ms. Shelby "was just wonderful" and "would even come up here on her days off."
Then the reduced time limit left Ms. Shelby with neither welfare nor work. She still gets about $250 a month in food stamps for herself and her 3-year-old son, Dejon. She counts herself fortunate, she said, because a male friend lets her stay in a spare room, with no expectations of sex.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:06 AM
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That is an interesting stat. Do you have a link for it?

I agree though. The Obama economy is FUS.
Why yes, there is a link, but instead of me sharing it with you here, how's about you read through what I linked then find the study for yourself. Do your own homework.

Cry me a river if that's too difficult.
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  #17  
Old 04-11-2012, 10:10 AM
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If these women in AZ are so ambitious with these ways to make ends meet then why don't they just get jobs?
This is a trick question, right?

No?

Okay, then, how about "there are no jobs", or "education funding has been cut" or "Jan Brewer was too busy chasing brown people while dry humping Joe Arpaio's leathery thigh" or "the job creators haven't been living up to their name"......
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:22 AM
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If these women in AZ are so ambitious with these ways to make ends meet then why don't they just get jobs?
Miwingman. You do realize how this sounds. Have you stopped to put yourself into the world of a single mother?

Do you have kids?
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Old 04-11-2012, 02:57 PM
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Read what I posted again and get back to me on how these people can are generational welfare abusers and how they didn't get cut off.




Yeah, they lost their benefits and it is wrong. Why don't you cry a fucking river for them.
Again if it sounds too cruel, it probably isn't true.

Quote:
The four-year limit doesn’t include months where someone with a disability can’t work, or where family members are caring for a disabled spouse or child and can’t hold a job outside the home, but those months count under the federal limit.

Neithercut ruled that the state can’t deny benefits to those who haven’t reached the four-year state cap.

The law also exempts from the state limit recipients 65 or older who don’t qualify for Social Security benefits or receive very low benefits, and temporarily exempts some recipients who are domestic violence victims.

...

“Legislators and (Gov. Rick Snyder) consistently have said they wanted to protect families that cannot support themselves through employment because of serious disabilities, but the 60-month time limit policy eliminated that protection,” said Jackie Doig, the center’s senior staff attorney.
“Under this ruling, the Legislature’s intent will be carried out,” she added in a statement.

The ruling would make many of those 11,000 families eligible again for assistance until they reach the state’s four-year limit. They could be eligible for a much longer period if they continue to fall under the law’s exemptions.

Many families with disabled children, parents or spouses had said they were worried their loved ones wouldn’t get the care they needed if the caregiver in the family had to work outside the home.

Neithercut said state lawmakers clearly wanted to exempt the months those caregivers were needed at home or that recipients were disabled from counting toward the four-year limit, since “attempting to force ... (those families) into independence would undoubtedly fail and would only lead to hardship.”
http://www.petoskeynews.com/news/fea...,6673431.story
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:04 PM
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The article also talked to people in Arizona.

AZ - not Michigan.

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Arizona, which has cut its welfare caseloads in half since the recession. “The poor people who were dropped from cash assistance here, mostly single mothers, talk with surprising openness about the desperate, and sometimes illegal, ways they make ends meet,” DeParle reported. “They have sold food stamps, sold blood, skipped meals, shoplifted, doubled up with friends, scavenged trash bins for bottles and cans and returned to relationships with violent partners — all with children in tow.”
I commend your hope that this nation is a better place than some of us fear that it is becoming.

But don't misplace your positive expectations.

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