liberals will vote against their own interest as much as conservatives in my opionion

[Lance in Manassas]

Originally Posted by getatnard

I dont trust politicians either but i can look at their voting records and the type of bills they bring to the table. The man barely talks abortion on his own. matter of fact they only time i hear him talk about it is when it is ask of him

Ron Paul votes for amendments to put earmarks into bills that benefit his constiuents.

Then he votes against the bills.

So is he for earmarks, or against spending?

Since the effective outcome is other politicians pass the bills he's amended, I'm going with he's for spending and earmarks and claiming falsely that he's against spending.

[getatnard]

Originally Posted by Lance in Manassas

Ron Paul votes for amendments to put earmarks into bills that benefit his constiuents.

Then he votes against the bills.

So is he for earmarks, or against spending?

Since the effective outcome is other politicians pass the bills he's amended, I'm going with he's for spending and earmarks and claiming falsely that he's against spending.

He is in the house of representatives is he not? He does what his constituents ask. Thats what the house is designed for. So you support Obama and Obama signs bills with earmarks and for spending so you agree with paul on this right?

[Lance in Manassas]

Originally Posted by getatnard

He is in the house of representatives is he not? He does what his constituents ask. Thats what the house is designed for. So you support Obama and Obama signs bills with earmarks and for spending so you agree with paul on this right?

Does Obama go around telling America the problem is government spending is too high while he votes for more government spending?

Because Paul does.

[getatnard]

So now ron paul votes for more government spending.

[Tritium]

Originally Posted by Lance in Manassas

Does Obama go around telling America the problem is government spending is too high while he votes for more government spending?

Because Paul does.

References?

[CMAC]

Originally Posted by getatnard

we hear this every election cycle. Republicans have controlled every branch of the government and abortion hasn't been overturned yet.

The current makeup of the court says this time it's different. As does the modern Republican party. The moderate to liberal GOP members are gone. Now the party is more religious and conservative. That doesn't sound so bad until you realize this isn't the love your neighbor type of religion. It's more of the smite some people type of religion.

The conservatives aren't the moderate CONSERVE the status quo. It's more of a regressive movement than conservative one.

[getatnard]

Originally Posted by CMAC

The current makeup of the court says this time it's different. As does the modern Republican party. The moderate to liberal GOP members are gone. Now the party is more religious and conservative. That doesn't sound so bad until you realize this isn't the love your neighbor type of religion. It's more of the smite some people type of religion.

The conservatives aren't the moderate CONSERVE the status quo. It's more of a regressive movement than conservative one.

I'm calling bullshit. I hear the same thing from conservatives about gun control and how this batch of liberals are different than the ones of the past and they are going 2 take our guns away. The party is not more religious it just gets more coverage because we have the internet now and more access to news. You have know idea how these people are you just know what someone tells you so for you to say religious conservative are more of the type to smite some people is wrong

[CMAC]

Originally Posted by getatnard

I'm calling bullshit. I hear the same thing from conservatives about gun control and how this batch of liberals are different than the ones of the past and they are going 2 take our guns away. The party is not more religious it just gets more coverage because we have the internet now and more access to news. You have know idea how these people are you just know what someone tells you so for you to say religious conservative are more of the type to smite some people is wrong

Well I'm calling bullshit too. This court is different. Citizens united anyone? There is a solid 4 justice group from the extreme right. If the one moderate left on the court retires and is replaced by another right winger, who would be a moderating force?

And I don't need anyone to tell me what to say about the Religious Right. They tell me themselves. These are the same SOBs who run around claiming ProLife. But then they love to make war. They love the death penalty. Hell there's even a subset who is OK with killing doctors who perform abortions.

[CMAC]

Originally Posted by getatnard

I'm calling bullshit. I hear the same thing from conservatives about gun control and how this batch of liberals are different than the ones of the past and they are going 2 take our guns away. The party is not more religious it just gets more coverage because we have the internet now and more access to news. You have know idea how these people are you just know what someone tells you so for you to say religious conservative are more of the type to smite some people is wrong

These so called Christians are also the ones who applaud Rick Perry's Texas killing policy. Then the answer the question about what to do to help folks with no health insurance with "let em die". Then they clap and have an uproar. Yeah, they don't belong in the smite group, yeah right.

[getatnard]

Extreme right is your opinion. I don't even know what that means anymore. I don't think abortion will ever get overturned but all we can do is wait it out and see who's right. So you will be willing to vote for someone that will keep the status quo going (the rich keep getting richer under obama to) wars and all that I explained earlier because of the threat of overturning roe vs wade.

[getatnard]

Originally Posted by CMAC

These so called Christians are also the ones who applaud Rick Perry's Texas killing policy. Then the answer the question about what to do to help folks with no health insurance with "let em die". Then they clap and have an uproar. Yeah, they don't belong in the smite group, yeah right.

Yeah you are right because the people at rick perry rally represent all christians who vote republican. Since they all are the same why isn't he still in the race. Since they all are extreme right why is romney winning and ron paul is dead last.

[Iowa Auto Guy]

Originally Posted by getatnard

Yeah you are right because the people at rick perry rally represent all christians who vote republican. Since they all are the same why isn't he still in the race. Since they all are extreme right why is romney winning and ron paul is dead last.

Its about demographics and demographic overlap.

Rick Perry had a number of issues, one key one was goofing on the structure of government. I think he also reminded people a little too much of Bush. Which placed the evangelical vote in Santorums hands.

Ron Paul is far from being a far right winger. The demographic overlap of social and fiscal conservatives is what defines the far right side of the spectrum. The far right doesnt care about how much money or government we have, only what we use that money and government for.

The "government too big" line only comes out when Democrats do sometning and is conveniently forgotten when republicans spend money or create a new czar, etc.

[CMAC]

Originally Posted by getatnard

Extreme right is your opinion. I don't even know what that means anymore. I don't think abortion will ever get overturned but all we can do is wait it out and see who's right. So you will be willing to vote for someone that will keep the status quo going (the rich keep getting richer under obama to) wars and all that I explained earlier because of the threat of overturning roe vs wade.

I'm not saying Obama is perfect. Far from it. He's just better than Mitt or Rick by a long shot.
Paul is better on foreign policy, but that's about it. I don't buy into the idea of devolving the federal government and increasing state government. Stuff needs done. Having states be our active government gets into not having economies of scale. Also it would have 50 different sets of rules.

I think we should be one nation. Now I will agree the constitution doesn't provide for a strong enough nation. Amendments may be necessary to bring our nation state into compliance.

[Iowa Auto Guy]

Originally Posted by getatnard

Extreme right is your opinion. I don't even know what that means anymore. I don't think abortion will ever get overturned but all we can do is wait it out and see who's right. So you will be willing to vote for someone that will keep the status quo going (the rich keep getting richer under obama to) wars and all that I explained earlier because of the threat of overturning roe vs wade.

Its about degrees, not absolutes. The rich may get richer slower under Obama, while more social freedoms open up... or we vote republican and the rich get richer even faster and social freedoms are stripped away.

[CMAC]

Originally Posted by getatnard

Yeah you are right because the people at rick perry rally represent all christians who vote republican. Since they all are the same why isn't he still in the race. Since they all are extreme right why is romney winning and ron paul is dead last.

No those idiots don't represent all Christians who may vote GOP. But contrary to your earlier post, I didn't need anyone to tell me what to say about them. They make themselves known.

[getatnard]

Originally Posted by CMAC

I'm not saying Obama is perfect. Far from it. He's just better than Mitt or Rick by a long shot.
Paul is better on foreign policy, but that's about it. I don't buy into the idea of devolving the federal government and increasing state government. Stuff needs done. Having states be our active government gets into not having economies of scale. Also it would have 50 different sets of rules.

I think we should be one nation. Now I will agree the constitution doesn't provide for a strong enough nation. Amendments may be necessary to bring our nation state into compliance.

Ok so how can he give more power to the states as president. Congress has the law making power so it would congress who has to give away these powers.

[getatnard]

The majority of the religious right as you call them don't go to rallies. You seem to base you observation on the worse and I don't think that's fair. Some people make the same generalization on people who game the entitlement system and that is equally unfair.

[CMAC]

Originally Posted by getatnard

Ok so how can he give more power to the states as president. Congress has the law making power so it would congress who has to give away these powers.

This is my whole point. The house is overrun with the tea party. The senate will probably go red as well. The SCOTUS is well on the way to going republican. With a GOP president it my go to a five or more GOP majority.

[CMAC]

Originally Posted by getatnard

The majority of the religious right as you call them don't go to rallies. You seem to base you observation on the worse and I don't think that's fair.

it might not be fair. But it is what we have to go on. When the religious right makes as much noise against the worse ones, as they do about the abortion or contraceptive issue , they may have a little more credibility. Or at least indicate they exist.

[getatnard]

How is the house over run with tea party? It might be enough to stall john john a little but they hold no majority. You don't know if the senate will go red. Just because you vote for paul for president doesn't mean you have to vote party lines down the ticket.